The Shaggs - Philosophy of the World
Apr 21, 2021 (updated Apr 22, 2021)
0
EDIT: https://rateyourmusic.com/music-review/oakie/the-shaggs/philosophy-of-the-world/149145375

this review will remain open to further the discussion.
37 Comments
Apr 21, 2021
Didn’t their dad force them to make music or something? I heard it wasn’t as abusive as you’re trying to make it out to be. If it is please tell me.
Apr 21, 2021
@ImplicitDoom Yeah I remember reading that, it was apparently for some really absurd reason too. It's here btw: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shaggs
Apr 21, 2021
Yeah the backstory is cruel and it is very sad but calling it "supporting abuse" seems a bit much bud
Apr 21, 2021
i feel like cruelty towards children should be considered child abuse
Apr 22, 2021
These girls made some of the best rock music out there, what do you mean abuse, the backstory might be sad and confusing but it won’t change anything about the music itslef. Don’t be pretentious and appreciate what they did😌
The fact that it was made forcefully doesn’t mean it’s not an art and that we shouldn’t enjoy it for what it is..
Apr 22, 2021
You tell em, dingo
Apr 22, 2021
@Flamingooooo but the music itself is bred FROM abuse, therefore supporting it fully acknowledges that you understand the backstory behind this album and you still choose to partake it and hold a result of trauma as high art. to me, that seems like you're supporting a form of abuse. i'd love to be argued otherwise though (whilst i did write that emotionally/for clickbait, i would like to open up a further discussion about this)
Apr 22, 2021
that=my original review, and the fuller length write up i will compose soon
Apr 22, 2021
Also the “if you’re not disgusted by it stay far away from me thing” is really dumb because this isn’t anywhere near as bad as you’re making it to be. You’re acting like he beat them daily during the recording process. They clearly aren’t effected by it either if they’re still performing to this day.
Apr 22, 2021
@ImplicitDoom very fair point and i do agree. the reason i'm critiquing the album itself so harshly is because of it being a result of these kids being ripped of a normal childhood and being forced down a path they didn't want to go. of course austin didn't physically harm his children during recording, however, i feel like this album is still a form of lighter abuse and i don't support what this album was created from. admittedly, i have taken my emotions a little too into account, but it upsets me that people don't talk about how this album was conceived enough and just go "oh yeah weird music is weird but like good tho!!!!!!".
Apr 22, 2021
that abuse being the cruelty as halbery words it of being ripped out of school and being forced to go down that path as i've mentioned.

of course, it isn't a "substantial" if you will form of abuse, but any abuse is abuse, and any abuse earns a couple thumbs down from o-sizzle
Apr 22, 2021
of course they aren't as affected by it now, as well, i definitely agree they overcame and for them i am nothing but proud, but i still feel like this album emits toxic reactions from pretentious internet lords who want to be weird quirky different etc
Apr 22, 2021
who want to be quirky etc in exchange for their morality* aoty lemme edit my replies please please mom
Apr 22, 2021
I mean - I guess. Kinda just vibing to Korn rn but u got solid arguments.
Apr 22, 2021
I don’t think the 0 is necessary at all however. If you don’t like it that much than that’s fine, but idk
Apr 22, 2021
@oakie I totally get your point but you are overreacting in this case a little bit. We all agree that what the dad did was wrong, and that such things should never happen, but diving deep into the backstory and buliding hatred towards the situation in which this album was made isn’t the greatest choice to do honestly. Everything came out fine, the girls survived the studio sessions and eventually we got an album that (for what it is) is absolutely stunning. I know, abuse is not a good thing, especially if it’s made towards the child, who is more likely to have mental problems in the future because of things like that. But don’t fall into extreme here, child abuse was very common back in the day, which also includes, beating, not paying attention to the kid or being strict to the way the kid is failing to satisfy not only their parents but themselves too. Parentship is very hard thing and a lot of parents don’t even know they are making their child suffer, having truly good intentions.
Apr 22, 2021
To listen to The Shaggs is not to support abuse, but to acknowledge the whole situation, and to appreciate what has come out of it. The father probably wasn't even a bad person, he just wasn't aware that his actions could negatively affect his daughters. People often don't realise these things, and it's not just about parenting, it's about the whole of human life. If we now held each of us accountable for all the bad things we've ever done and showed it to the world, everyone would probably start to hate themselves and lose confidence in others. I know you have a great sense of justice, that's good, but don't let situations like this create hatred in you, which has never done any good in this world.
Also, don't talk crap and give these Shaggs more than 0 because the girls damn well earned it🤪
Apr 22, 2021
And i don’t mean to Justify the fathers actions, I'm just saying that these kinds of situations shouldn't affect you to the point where you negate everything that came out of them. The world was created in suffering and it is full of it, but it does not mean that we should negate it and hate it, because in every situation you can find at least a pinch of positive value, like in this case for example
Apr 22, 2021
@ImplicitDoom it was either the 0 or no rating, i refuse to give it anything higher LOL

vibe to ur korn bbg ill be here flaming mad over music when u get back <3
Apr 22, 2021
@Flamingooooo just because child abuse was common back when this album was conceived doesn't mean it's okay. similar to how racism was okay in the 60's, sexism, transphobia, homophobia - any type of discrimination or abuse you could muster was probably fine in the 60s! that doesn't make it okay, and i can look back on acts from the past and vilify or be disgusted by them. especially with a case like this, i don't think i'm "falling into the extreme" by being upset about the things these girls were put through. again, i understand that they're okay now, and i am over the moon that they still preform these songs today (it's probably a good thing to note i was very aware of these performances before conceiving this review), but i still think i'm not in the wrong to be disgusted by the actions and, by association, have the music that came from those actions be repulsive to me which i very much think it is - not due to the quality or substance, but due to the intentions.
Apr 22, 2021
ive never thought it was that good but i think the surrealness of the music + the darker history behind it makes it really interesting
Apr 22, 2021
i think holding this album in high regard does support a form of abuse because of what i've listed above. you are willingly taking the backstory - and, with your case, you definitely know what's going on - and saying "yes, i acknowledge this happened, and i am celebrating what came of parental abuse from an adult man to 3 young girls ripped of a childhood. i fully consent to what has happened to these girls and i am proud of it because it has created art". that's what those actions say to me. are they extreme? i really don't see how they could be. that is not a hard distinction or an over the top distinction to me. i am happy - fuck, BEGGING - to be proven otherwise, but for now, that is how i take the praise to this album. austin higgs may not been aware of what he was doing, that doesn't make his actions okay. with passive ignorance in racism or sexism or whatever, the people committing these acts "aren't aware of their actions and how they could negatively affect others", yet
Apr 22, 2021
i can guarantee you and i both will be at an agreement that those are still not okay. and we should hold each other accountable regardless of the self-doubt or whatever it causes. you think someone is gonna stop being a jerk just... like that? like one day they will have a magic epiphany and then suddenly they're a-okay again? it could, but let's be real, it probalby wouldn't.

thank you for your words about hatred, i'm not trying to spread hatred here (and i apologize to anyone if that's how i've come off), but i'm very passionate about these topics and they lead me to get emotional quick. i apologize if that's how i've come off - i'm trying to start a discussion, not a war (this review will be edited once i post my full write up)

yeah ur right htey did deserve a 0 xd xddxdx xd dxdxd
Apr 22, 2021
@halbery i respect that, i also find it interesting tbh
Apr 22, 2021
also to any readers, i apologize if my analogies are over the top in anyway - i'm literally just not intelligent enough to think of more passive ones lol
Apr 22, 2021
because of how complicated this album is its been impossible for me to give a rating i think is fair ngl
Apr 23, 2021
@oakoe Your reasoning is understandable and it’s totally fine with me, i appreciate it. We both just look slighty different at this topic, you choosed to not like this album because of moral reason, I choosed to like it, and it’s all.
But Yeah, don’t say that listening to this band supports abuse, it’s just wrong. It has nothing to do with it as long as the person who listens to it is actually abusive. You can only support abuse by your actions, not by listening to music you enjoy.
Apr 23, 2021
@Flamingooooo and you're totally within your right to enjoy it, i'm glad this album gives you the joy it does :)

i will say listening to this ALBUM (i must clarify, it's just this album. if i've said otherwise, i apologize, that's incorrect, the shaggs as a band are not bad and i actually think the continuation of them to current day is the total opposite of what i've argued) and praising it does indirectly support or at least makes you a bystander to abuse, which i believe i supporting it indirectly by an action. but, if you're here solely for the music, as long as you state that you're against the backstory, 's'all good mayne
Apr 23, 2021
Not to peek in but I definitely think you should stick with a NR rating
Apr 23, 2021
@ImplicitDoom please chime in whenever you feel like! and i feel like the statement i want to make is further emphasized with the 0 but i understand your concern
Apr 23, 2021
sheeeeeeeeeeesh
Apr 23, 2021
imagine forcing your kids to be in a band based off a stupid prediction, crushing all their hopes and dreams for music

oh wait
Apr 23, 2021
@bl0nded and then people on the internet say its high art and totally disregard ur suffering as a kid

oh wait

/hj
Apr 24, 2021
Hey guys! Implicit doom here, why don’t we all collectively stream Santeria by Sublime. That’s a good idea
2d ago
Looks like Sublime can bring us all together
1d ago
@ImplicitDoom fuck metal and FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!! /j
1d ago
You don’t gotta do the signal thingies with me dude dude

)also sublime is metal now I guess(
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