David Bowie - The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders From Mars
Feb 28, 2020 (updated Mar 20, 2020)
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any enjoyment i had for this album previously was turned to pure revulsion when i learned what David Bowie did to a 14 year old girl, and likely many others
Xzfgiiimtsath's Tags
121 Comments
Mar 1, 2020
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Mar 1, 2020
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Mar 1, 2020
re: KID - wtf is so funny about that?

re: okcomputer - so if hitler released some Rockin' Tunes back in the 40's you'd be ok with listening to that?
Mar 1, 2020
are you making the claim that bowie's actions are near or on the same level of morality as hitler's?
Mar 1, 2020
there was no definitive proof that bowie did these things, and if he did, is massacring 6 million people on the same level as.. that
Mar 1, 2020
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Mar 1, 2020
I'm making a point by trying to find out exactly where this person draws the line... they're probably not willing to listen to music from someone who commits mass genocide, but someone who r*ped a child passes the test

and no, "separating the art from artist" is a weak cop out based in denial and apathy that exists only so you can listen to music without having to think about this stuff. the art is inherently connected to the artist and can't just be arbitrarily separated just because you'd prefer it that way. The Smith's ratings SHOULD get tanked because of Morrissey. Bowie should be forgotten by history, along with a large majority of rock musicians from the 70s
Mar 1, 2020
this isn't about me, just trying to spread awareness. I've literally NEVER had anyone respond with "wow, youre such a good person" and the notion is silly as fuck lmao. why does this piss you off so much? you seek out my comments all over the place
Mar 1, 2020
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Mar 1, 2020
well said
Mar 1, 2020
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Mar 1, 2020
dude's dead
Mar 1, 2020
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Mar 1, 2020
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Mar 1, 2020
what have I said that was outlandish again? im not just "saying random shit" LMFAO this was international news in 2019, and a simple google of "david bowie pedophile" turns up pages and pages of results regarding the incident(s). and it still blows me away that rather than asking "wtf really?" or merely responding with revulsion (since this was such a common thing among 70s rock stars and not that surprising), people still INSTANTLY get angry and defensive that someone like ME could possibly level an accusation like that at a Big Widely Revered Celebrity like Bowie.

i explained the Hitler "comparison" (not what it was)

i don't "enjoy provoking reactions," this shit stresses me out. I'm just disgusted to see all the wide praise and high averages for bowie and I don't mind engaging people that would come to his defense

...and what does me talking about leftist theory have anything to do with anything?? "talk about actual issues"?? are you saying this isn't one??????
Mar 1, 2020
and hey, I've already made a small difference apparently! :)
Mar 1, 2020
"I DONT LIKE THIS TOPIC! POST ABOUT DIFFERENT TOPICS!"
Mar 1, 2020
huh
Mar 1, 2020
wha
Mar 1, 2020
also: bowie won't be forgotten by history (and by that i mean erased from the popular music canon) til more opinions about him change
Mar 1, 2020
listen im not even a fan of david bowie but he changed the course of music history and also millions of lives and also contributed tons of money to charity etc etc etc

lets say you created amazing art and were a great person but also killed someone while coked outta your goddamn mind and then regretted it later, what would your verdict be?
Mar 1, 2020
if donating money to charity made you a good person then every billionaire would be off the hook lmao

making "good music" (written by a pedo so not really) doesn't get you off the hook either. why the hell would it???

and this hypothetical scenario is irrelevant and impossible to evaluate realistically
Mar 1, 2020
are you really trying to excuse murder and pedophilia if someone "makes amazing art"?
Mar 1, 2020
no but its kinda dumb to say that art and its impact should be erased from history because of completely unrelated actions. also im still curious about the killing someone while coked outta your goddamn mind hypothetical

the argument isnt that the music excuses the crime or the crime should be forgotten, the argument is that people shouldnt be condemned for bumping Space Oddity
Mar 1, 2020
why do you waste your time on this bro
Mar 1, 2020
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Mar 1, 2020
damn
Mar 1, 2020
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Mar 1, 2020
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Mar 1, 2020
lmao @ this narrative that i think im a hero?? yall are developing a creative mythology around me and its weirdly endearing

no one's trying to listen to my point, though, except grabby (EDIT: and okcomputer), even if they disagree with it. but the actions arent unrelated, its literally the same guy. of course you cant plug your ears and pretend his music wasnt influential, but that doesnt mean it or him should ever be revered or put on a pedestal in any form. victims of pedophilia who know about Bowie's crimes still hear his shit on the radio all the time and see praise for him everywhere, he's revered as a pop culture icon. its pretty repulsive.

no respect for bowie whatsoever.
Mar 1, 2020
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Mar 1, 2020
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Mar 2, 2020
i dont think saying "nobody agrees with you so you must be wrong lololol" is the move but i still dont rlly agree. do you i guess. i cant read your mind so as long as you truly dont believe youre better than anybody else cuz you dont like bowie then like whatever bro

also im still curious about the killing someone while coked outta your goddamn mind hypothetical
Mar 2, 2020
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Mar 2, 2020
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Mar 2, 2020
get a life
Mar 2, 2020
@Toasterqueen12 are you reading anything i type or are you just monologuing
@Plats im listening and responding and disagreeing

david bowie was a pedo, do with this information what you want. and im gonna judge people who will knowingly listen to pedo music. yall can like that or not lmao. being this mad about it is straight up fucking silly
Mar 8, 2020
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Mar 9, 2020
that attitude is fucking disgusting
Mar 9, 2020
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Mar 9, 2020
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Mar 9, 2020
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Mar 9, 2020
@Plats your "proof" is a twitter post from a user named "lolita" (lol) saying that all the Bowie info came from a tumblr post? this is intentional misinformation, a LIE and completely false. stop protecting abusers and get off my review.

@e "hitler was undeniably talented" gets a big fuck-off from me. you're beyond saving. bye
Mar 9, 2020
gonna be shutting down anymore shit like that on this review before it gets out of hand.
Mar 9, 2020
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Mar 9, 2020
thx, feel free to distribute far and wide :- )
Mar 9, 2020
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Mar 9, 2020
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Mar 10, 2020
fucking wikipedia? google? it's common knowledge and international news, and both these sources display PAGE AFTER PAGE of results, way too many to post here, and this guy's citing a random twitter post lmao. why try so hard to defend these people? i seriously don't get it
Mar 10, 2020
and yeah im sure Bowie denied all of it lmfao
Mar 10, 2020
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Mar 10, 2020
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Mar 10, 2020
zzzzzzzz
Mar 10, 2020
if you cant be assed to google it rather than making me copy and paste a bunch of links in here then fuck off
Mar 11, 2020
funny how p much everyone here but me has Bowie in their 90s or 100s - boring taste AND willing to forgive pedophilia!
Mar 11, 2020
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Mar 11, 2020
@KingKRoolisBack him being "influential" has nothing to do with anything, and im sure lots of artists regret citing him as an influence at this point

@Toasterqueen12 everyone's heard ziggy stardust lol. however, the sounds on the album were written and executed by a pedo, not sure how you can assign any value to them whatsoever without artificially "separating art from artist"

if i state that gravity exists is the burden also on me to prove it? this was international news and is common knowledge and "IF YOU DONT POST LINKS YOURE MAKING IT UP" is a fucking grade school copout

HOWEVER! to appease you, here's some links (inb4 you claim the victims are lying/say it's ok because the victim said it was "consensual"/ask for DNA evidence or something lol):
Mar 11, 2020
inb4 "the victim's account doesn't prove anything" or an attempt to cite the two sentences in Lori's wiki article where her claims are "questioned" bc there aren't photos of her with her abuser lol, and that she was exclusively owned by Jimmy Page

inb4 you ask for a scientific journal article with a forensic analysis of the crime or you refuse to take any of it seriously

"separating art from artist" is a coping mechanism and nothing more, and it enables abusers. please for the love of fuck stop that shit.
Mar 11, 2020
don't let your emotional attachment to sound waves override your fucking conscience
Mar 11, 2020
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Mar 11, 2020
lmao @ refusing to google it out of spite. again, most people already know about this, maybe do some research before you get so angry and attack me and defend Bowie!

you also neglected to read a good chunk of my post there, which is a bad habit of yours
Mar 11, 2020
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Mar 11, 2020
@KIDWITHGUNs your only contributions to this thread have been nonsensical quips and you're an unshakable Bowie stan with this album in your 100s lmao. b l o c k e d
Mar 14, 2020
just because your views are under the guises of a positive message doesnt make it unquestionable right and doesn't give you the right to be a a douchebag trying to manipulatively shame people by calling them "pedophile apologists" just for enjoying music. in the attempt to be as socially conscious as possible you actually come off a lot more ignorant to great art by overvaluing the importance of unrelated ad hominem which would only affect your perception of the music if the music didn't hold that much weight in the first place. believe it or not you can be a bad person and be good at stuff and to deny otherwise would just be over-reactionary. hitler was a good painter. that's just true. thinking in moral absolutes is perceptually skewed and just immature as fuck. dismissively labelling anybody who disagrees as just a "blind fan" is condescending and just immature as fuck. you are at minimum a decade older than the vast majority of users here and you act half a decade younger than them
Mar 15, 2020
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Mar 15, 2020
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Mar 15, 2020
if you read the thread you'd know this was about a lot more than "just enjoying music" lmfao

"hitler was a good painter" is a purely subjective opinion, not a fact and if you're willing to put him on a pedestal like that then you can fuck off (and who honestly gives a shit how hitler painted? what the fuck). stop venerating garbage human beings. their art is absolutely inseparable from their person. this thread is just me repeating this over and over now. i am intentionally condescending to people who don't give a shit about this.

"overvaluing the importance of unrelated ad hominem which would only affect your perception of the music if the music didn't hold that much weight in the first place."
"ignorant to great art"
you have no idea to appreciate art if you separate art from artist lol, and you clearly place no value on one and all value on the other. it doesn't work like that!
Mar 15, 2020
blocking spammers
Mar 15, 2020
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Mar 15, 2020
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Mar 15, 2020
brick wall
Mar 15, 2020
Ya'll wasting time 😴😴😴
Mar 21, 2020
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Mar 27, 2020
it was over a long time ago lol
Apr 12, 2020
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Apr 12, 2020
more like a carpet bombing of chuds
Apr 15, 2020
funny how quiet this thread got after i posted the links
Apr 15, 2020
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Apr 15, 2020
@Xzfgiiimtsath lol, only reason we stop is because you’re blocking everyone and wouldn’t listen to nobody
Apr 15, 2020
i never called the owner a nazi and i never commented on the "pedophilic user base" what the fuck why are you putting this in quotes lmao
Apr 15, 2020
@kingkroolisbest im only blocking spammers
Apr 15, 2020
this is a very weak attempt at a "gotcha"
Apr 15, 2020
I fine with people having their own opinions on people, and I too agree that we shouldn't act like some celebrity is a great person just because they made great art, however, please stop acting so smug and acting like you won the argument because no one is willing to agrue with a person who's head is so up their ass that they're not willing to listen to anyone
Apr 15, 2020
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Apr 15, 2020
This thread got quiet cause nobody wants to continue this toxic discussion. We're here to rate and discuss music, not endlessly debate over the morals of a deceased person.
Apr 16, 2020
Bowie never made great art. he was a pedophile. great art does not come from the minds of pedophiles. I hate anyone who willingly chooses to ignore this for any reason. I will be smug about this. My opinion is not changing on this. If you're mad that I look down on you for this......... GET USED TO IT!

@RakkSingles you weren't discussing anything, just making snide remarks lol, which is why you got blocked lol. and there's no debate to be had, which is why this conversation keeps going in circles. IF YOURE JUST HERE TO RATE AND DISCUSS MUSIC STOP FUCKING POSTING IN MY THREADS LMAO. ALSO: OMG DID U KNOW BOWIE IS A DECEASED PERSON WHO MADE LOTS OF MUSIC?

@Toasterqueen12 This site happens to be a great way to spread info like this! But why you gotta lie about me to try to smear me just because I hate pedophiles and phobes? ALSO: NEVER GOT ANY RESPONSE TO ALL THOSE LINKS I POSTED THAT YOU WERE SO DESPERATE FOR
Apr 16, 2020
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Apr 16, 2020
I think "separating art from the artist" comes from a larger more general idea in remembering people. Bowie made a lot of influential music, i also believe he slept with a number of underage girls, he was also an actor, he was married twice, was a father, he dealt with cocaine addiction and alcoholism. He was a lot things to a lot of different people and i'd personally say that anyone who outright ignores the drugs and sex scandals is stupid, but so are the people ignoring all the amazing things he did as well.
Apr 17, 2020
how the fuck can you casually include pedophilia in that list and refer to it as a "sex scandal"? youre minimizing the hell out of it. none of those other things has anything to do with this, and shouldn't even be part of a conversation about Bowie frankly. this has been the WHOLE POINT OF THIS THREAD and people keep jumping in to say the same thing over and over and over
Apr 17, 2020
gonna be blocking anyone who comes on to post the SAME FUCKIGN THING OVER AND OVER or else im gonna have to keep answering the same way over and over and this thread will just go on forever. Bowie fans fuck off
Apr 17, 2020
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Apr 18, 2020
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Apr 18, 2020
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Apr 18, 2020
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Apr 18, 2020
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Apr 18, 2020
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Jun 9, 2020
love how @Toasterqueen12 never responded to the links and literally had to lie and make shit up to figure out a way to continue attacking me for hating pedos
Jul 8, 2020
It’s your music taste so it’s ok for not liking this much but this is disrespectful as hell.
Jul 8, 2020
pedophiles don't deserve anyone's respect and i hate their music. read the thread before making such a wilfully ignorant comment
Jul 8, 2020
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Jul 9, 2020
why are you telling me this like i care
Jul 9, 2020
oh wait, you mean they blocked me after being provided with the evidence they were demanding? and thanking me for it? that's hilarious, they knew how ignorant it made them look
Jul 9, 2020
@Dominic im a cunt and an ass to anyone who defends pedo shit, including you
Jul 9, 2020
Jesus fucking Christ, it's been seven months already, would you shut up?
And if you do genuinely care: https://medium.com/@msullivangates/a-word-on-david-bowie-lori-mattix-and-the-speed-of-information-b38681f24cf4
I know that you (Xz) aren't going to bother reading it seeing as actual evidence goes against your belief of accusation = fact, but for anyone who actually wants the facts, this is the most in-depth and well-researched article I could find on the matter.
Jul 9, 2020
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Jul 9, 2020
@TheTourist90 not enough people are mad about this and idk wtf that has to do with anything anyway
Jul 9, 2020
@JustSomeGuy hilarious that you assume i won't read it when YOU clearly didn't, as most of this has already been covered in the links i posted (which you also didn't read, but still call the victim's account "not actual evidence"). this is also the same info in the twitter post someone else already linked. way to look up one fucking Medium article full of indepent anaylsis of interviews (lol) and call it "ACTUAL EVIDENCE" (LOL)

there's no evidence of anything in particular here, only that some of her facts in this 50 year old story don't line up. if youre willing call that "evidence" that Bowie is innocent, if that DOESN'T EVEN GIVE YOU A SECOND THOUGHT ABOUT VIBING TO BOWIE, when a victim of statutory r*pe, in a scene fraught with statutory r*pe, accuses him of statutory r*pe, then you were never willing to believe the victim in the first place. anything to exonerate him because you want to vibe to his music guilt free.

YOU ARE CONTRIBUTING TO R*PE CULTURE. CONGRATS
Jul 9, 2020
Actual evidence is her going against her own word. You're saying "some", but it's ALL of her stories. She lost her virginity to Jimmy Page during a 1972 tour. She also lost her virginity in a three way with Bowie months after the fact. And she also lost her virginity to Bowie a whole year later. If you can't see how this SHOULD be brought into question, then you have no place to talk. Your links are ones that rely solely on her word alone. There's nothing to backup any of her claims. No eye-witnesses when she was supposedly brought along to many public places with him for over ten years. So we're just going to blindly believe that not a single person noticed one of the most famous people at the time with a much younger girl who isn't his wife, just because of her word?
And it's funny that you say I'm the one contributing to rape culture. You're the one blindly believing contradictory stories which brings not only her experiences into question, but also makes some people...
Jul 9, 2020
less likely to believe actual rape victims. I'm not saying that Mattix wasn't a rape victim, because she was at the hands of Page, but it is HIGHLY unlikely that she ever came face to face with Bowie, let alone slept with him MULTIPLE times. Your mindset genuinely baffles me. You are the definition of someone who believes "guilty until I say so". You don't even think that there's a possibility that Mattix could be lying despite the evidence just because you find it easiest to believe what you're told no questions asked.
At the end of the day, this entire thing is ridiculous. Like you said yourself, this shit supposedly happened 50 years ago. You can't 100% prove that it happened just like how I can't prove it 100% didn't happen. I'll admit that I have absolutely no clue what Bowie was doing in his bed, but at least I ain't spewing shit and telling everyone that that's exactly what they have to believe. The only people who know what happened between Bowie and Mattix...
Jul 9, 2020
are Bowie and Mattix, and depending on which account you're talking about Sable Starr and Bowie's wife. Bowie and Starr are dead, so we can't hear their sides to the story. As far as I know, Angela still hasn't said anything on the matter, and considering the fact that she only appeared in one of Mattix's stories it's unlikely she would even know anything to begin with. And Mattix has somehow managed to forget so many memorable details that her word has become untrustworthy. Did she lose her virginity to Page in his hotel room in '72? Did she lose it in a three way with Bowie when he called her up to his room? Did she lose it when she snuck into his hotel room before sneaking out unnoticed? How about when she snuck in and got caught by Angie? Or maybe she lost it to Bowie in '73, long after evidence of her relationship with Page starts? Please do enlighten me, Xz, should we seriously just blindly believe all of these stories just because the topic is serious?
Jul 9, 2020
Are we seriously not supposed to ask questions, like which story it is that we're supposed to belive? Mattix herself can't come up with a solid story to stick wiht, so which story is it we SHOULD believe? Which one do YOU believe?
Convo done btw, like I said back in February, this conversation is pointless and you're holding onto it for no reason. Nobody cares about your BS anymore.
Jul 9, 2020
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Jul 10, 2020
@Toasterqueen12 if you want me to stop replying, stop posting in this thread lol

@JustSomeGuy 5 paragraphs of "WHY SHOULD WE BELIEVE THE VICTIM?" no thanks. man you really love defending r*pists
Jul 10, 2020
@JustSomeGuy 5 paragraphs of, "i dont know whether he did or didn't do it, no one can PROVE it one way or the other, but I'm still fine listening to him."
Jul 10, 2020
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